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7 Nuzyael 720

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Kugald Daas
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Post  Kugald Daas Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:05 pm

"Well, so far, my ideas have not been very successful."

Kugald relates the tale of meeting with the Daas and his reaction. "To date, things have resulted in...as the Daas put it...a 'debacle'..." He shakes his head, and somewhat surprisingly, smiles...though perhaps a bit ruefully. "No one said this would be easy."

"The only idea I have left is to go into the village and ask people if they have seen Reike Gerherbt or any new people they don't recognise. I would suggest when we do, we start with the non-Gerherbt... preferably the Daas...clansmen first. If we have no luck in Deje or Asarna, then we go south and check Nupon and check there, since it is the only direction we haven't gone."

"Failing that, I think we should head west to the river and check with the river-side thrans to see if anyone is missing a boat."

"Any better ideas....because I am really drawing a blank here guys. So far my 'detective' skills have resulted in no success at all. Help me out." He looks around at the smarter members of the group, "I just hammer hot bits of metal all day. Hunting a fugitive is unlike anything I have ever done before."

TTYL

- Kerry
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Post  Barak Daas Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:25 pm

Barak enthusiasticly returns Algared's greeting, being unused to such attention. Barak sits down, and rummages in his knapsack and pulls some bread and cheese from his rations bags. “While we discuss this, I am going to have a bit to eat.”

“It rained last night so the ground is fairly soft. I was able to follow your tracks with relative ease, but I didn’t see a lone man coming this way along the road. Either he went across country, or I believe he didn’t come this way. Of course if he has gone some other way, he will have gained a day’s lead on us by the time we get back to Rojanstad.”

“We may as well ask in Deje since we’re here. We could split up when we go in to the thran and each ask different people. There are a lot of hunters here, and I may have some luck talking to them. We don’t want to be too intimidating. We may want to leave our weapons here, under guard, before we go in to Deje. We may get a better response if we’re not perceived as hunting for him under arms. We can be quick and meet back here to discuss our next moves.”

“If we draw a blank we can head back towards Rojanstad as you suggest and check on the thrans as we go. Don’t forget we’ll need to find some shelter for the night – it will probably be dark by the time we get back Rojanstad. The trouble is I don’t want to be losing time when we ought to checking the thrans to the south and the river to the west. But neither do I think will do much good tiring ourselves trying to visit all the thrans after dark. We may need to split up again, and then meet back at Rojanstad.”

“I can’t help thinking that he was hiding up there, waiting for you to leave before making his move - maybe to the river, it is the fastest way to escape. That doesn’t mean he is still in Rojanstad now. I don't think we're going to get anywhere unless someone gives us a clue to his where abouts. But we must also be careful - we might be sent on a wild goose chase.”
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Post  Algared Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:59 pm

"Neiren and I asked around for our "friend", but few here had even heard of him and those who had did not know him. We had a similar result at Asama. I tried not to indicate we hunted him, but were seeking a friend who was suppossed to be headed this way. Neirin sought for tracks of a lone man but in the end was forced to admit our quarry was lost. Which considering we were clutching at straw seems to me not to be supprising. If we question folk in Asama or Deja again my thought is that will merely serve to start chatter and raise suspicions. If we were inept in our eagerness to find word of his travels, I fear the blame must rest with me. But he has not seemingly passed through these villages and if he was indeed travelling east he has not planned to pass here or travelled the road."
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Post  Barak Daas Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:49 pm

"Good point. I doubt my questioning would be any more effective than yours. So do we head back to Rojanstad, or head to the thrans to the south or west?"

"It might be best to try the river thrans since you havn't been there before. But it is a longer march, and, as I understand it, you don't have any evidence that he left Rojanstad. Though he probably has by now."

"Borygg and Erdick, what do you think?"
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Post  Guest Sat Sep 19, 2009 6:00 pm

Erdrick greets Neirin, and Algared. He ponders the situation we have found ourselves in, and the information that we know so far. Like Barak, Erdrick would have probably saw the tracks we had been following, and if there were any other tracks to be found, he might have spotted them as well. ((OOC: Erdrick has 64 in Tracking, while Barak has 70)).

"Weighing the information that we have, it doesn't seem likely that Gerherbt has gone this way. If he has gone by boat on the Leim, this could complicate things, as a simple trail would not be easy to find, and would depend on speaking to the right people. Could he possibly have gone further south than Nupon along the river past Milnheim perhaps?"

Pondering for a moment, "we should perhaps identify all the possible scenarios. He may have remained in Rojanstad, of which it may be a challenge to extract him. We could also acquire some information from Madrin, as to which Thrans have those who may be loyal to him, and may provide him shelter. Finally, he could have gone to the river and travelled by boat, of which we have yet further options to make as in, which way, up or down river he has gone."

Although he was never one to enjoy the hunt in his youth, the quarry in those days was a lot less complicated to track than what we are faced with today.

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Post  Jurri Grebel Sat Sep 19, 2009 6:20 pm

"There was little activity around Rojanstad this morning. Perhaps we should return and carefully search for any tracks leaving the area (aside from our own). If Reike fled across a field or pasture, it might give us a direction to concentrate our efforts."

"Meanwhile, those of us who cannot track can position ourselves to watch the routes approaching Rojanstad. If anyone leaves, we can follow them."

(OOC: Are Kugald and Thorin still riding? If so, perhaps they should ride to the river with what time remains today.) "If Reike fled that way, he would have been there before you left this morning."
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Post  Borygg Raal Sat Sep 19, 2009 6:25 pm

"I agree. As we are not sure he ever left Rojanstad, it may be a good idea to go back there and start from the beginning."

"It sounds like your last encounter with the Gerherbts (OOC: Was it really just this morning?) didn't go so smoothly. Maybe the few of us who weren't there could go to Rojanstad and see if we can find out anything different."

"Of course, we wouldn't want to go in obviously looking for Reike so we'd need a ruse of some sort."

(OOC: How big is Rojanstad?)
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Post  Barak Daas Sat Sep 19, 2009 6:35 pm

Barak finishes his bread, stands up and somewhat reluctantly picks up his shield and spear, "I can neither hunt nor track properly carrying this stuff" he reflects, he then checks that he hasn't left anything behind.

"Jurri, I think if any of us do ride off to the river thrans, we had better arrange a meeting place for them to return to. Rojanstad seems to be the pivitol point. Also, if we go to Nupon and Milnhem then we are leaving the land of the Daas: I know this since if I hunt there I needn't give a tithe to Cunate." He smiles at admitting to his poaching.

He then nods towards Kugald and awaits his decission.

[OoC: If we head back down the road, Barak will continue to scan for tracks other than our own, though he knows his chancs are slim. He will also longingly look out for any game we pass, though since he can't carry his bow there is nothing he can really do about it even if he does see it.]
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Post  Guest Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:36 pm

Hovik pipes up. "It's a pity you sleep so late, Kugald. I'll wager a pint to a hogshead that had you been on the road from Upsala a little earlier you would have met our friend on the road."

"I say we head to Trond."

"Why, I hear you ask? From the fact that we are talking about this in the shadow of the Kejelrian Mountains, it seems that you all assumed that Gerherbt is in the employ of the Ibanvaalers, and that he might try to escape to Froyby. The first assumption is baseless, and the second assumption ridiculous considering that it snowed here on the valley floor. The mountains will be socked in for some time now."

"A quail-brained man like Gerherbt wouldn't trade his good position on the small chance of a reward from distant Ibanvaal. But he might for an even better position with a more local rival. I don't know much about the local politics, but tell me, Kugald - isn't the lord of Trond loyal to the Stahlers, and rival to the Storzars of Froyaheim? Doesn't it make more sense that Gerherbt would be treating with the Tejaal of Trond, who rules just three leagues from Rojanstad? Imagine if the Daas was defeated in Froyaheim. The Tejaal could march into Ygesdram, 'to preserve it from the Dagen', and perhaps even grant it to Gerherbt as reward for his perfidy."

"The Dagen is not the Daas' only enemy."

"And let us do all in our power to see that the Gerherbt doesn't know we came to Deje. I hope I don't need to explain why."

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Post  Barak Daas Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:42 pm

"You could be right Hovik." muses Barak "I don't see why our quarry would have come this way. There is nothing to the east of us except snow capped mountains. You need a lot of practice to survive there at the end of winter." He pauses, then: "I do not know much about political allegiances, you don’t need them in the wilderness, but I wondered if he might have gone to Trond. It is a big place, easy to lose yourself in. The hand of Valhakar Daas would not have a lot of weight there. However, to gamble on that hunch is a big risk - if he is not there then we would have made double fools of ourselves."
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Post  Algared Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:15 am

Hovik wrote:The first assumption is baseless, and the second assumption ridiculous considering that it snowed here on the valley floor. The mountains will be socked in for some time now."

Algared looks up at this comment, his eye have a stoney glare that few have seen before, and the tone of his voice is firm. "Enough Hovik, I would be careful what you say for you are insulting in your manner! You were eager to claim insult and insisted on rushing off, and now you dare claim that the idea he had travelled to or was trying to contact ibanvaal is baseless. How dare you, endeavour to take such moral high ground, you forget the assumption is not basleless you forget the spy the Dass captured told he was ordered by his valhaker to take news to the forces of Ibanvaal.and for one who was eager to claim insult when suggestion. Now if you are going to make suggestion you will hold a civil tongue and you will choose your words carefully."

Algared takes a few breathes and seems to try stem his annoyance at Hovik's insults then continues. "As to your second reason, The snows in the mountains would make travel east more difficult, that doesn't mean he does not continue to try pass word to the invaders."

Hovik wrote:"A quail-brained man like Gerherbt wouldn't trade his good position on the small chance of a reward from distant Ibanvaal. But he might for an even better position with a more local rival. I don't know much about the local politics, but tell me, Kugald - isn't the lord of Trond loyal to the Stahlers, and rival to the Storzars of Froyaheim? Doesn't it make more sense that Gerherbt would be treating with the Tejaal of Trond, who rules just three leagues from Rojanstad? Imagine if the Daas was defeated in Froyaheim. The Tejaal could march into Ygesdram, 'to preserve it from the Dagen', and perhaps even grant it to Gerherbt as reward for his perfidy."

"The Dagen is not the Daas' only enemy."

"And let us do all in our power to see that the Gerherbt doesn't know we came to Deje. I hope I don't need to explain why."

''Yes the same reason I was against you raceing off initally Hovik, yes Gerbhert is not the only foe, and our so called king would have it that no help is forthcoming to Frotby, Given that it seemed gerbhert had not sent any men to the muster, these seemed to be a goodly number of his men folk at Rogenstad, it seems he has taken the word of the Stahler's fool to heart. Gerbhert may even be seeking to gain a Thran and he may be treating with trod, or the Stahler's. From what we know from the captured spy was he seemed to treat with Ibanvaal . who are not that distant since they knock on the doors of Froyby and upon the liem river fields, even if they did become lost in order to be there. the problem is we just dont know.

It does make sense first to try search for track around the Thran of Rojenstad, It was however claimed Gerbhert left via the road and we are from neirin's searches confident he had not left the roads if he travelled them. And neirin had checked the perimetre earlier and found no evidence anyone had left other than the road, at least that is my understanding, but then i am no hunter of tracker. Therefore is seems he is still or was still in his strong position amongst his clansmen."

Algared looks Hovik squarely in the face, then says "Kugald," and only once his cousin answers does he turn to face him, "it seems we still have many what if's, and though we have eliminated one we have added a dozen more. There is merit in many of the options, but if we believe the gerbhert clan are aware we are against them, I would council against splitting into too many groups lest they be emboldened to strike a blow against us. And we will still need to support Madrin, if he finds evidence they have neglected their dues he may be a target for them to remove." Algared sigh's knowing they have a seemingly impossible task and need it would seem Gerberht to make a significant error now. "None the less weigh up the thoughts and the thoughts and advice of us all, and be not swayed by claims of insult or hurt pride of any member and choose what seems the best, based upon what we know and what seems most reasonable, and with our limited manpower also achievable." with those final words Algared now stops and lets others give their thoughts before Kugald chooses what seems the best path.
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Post  Guest Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:40 am

Hovik rolls his eyes at Algared's rant. "Who pissed in your porridge this morning? If Kugald is insulted by my banter let him say so."

"Now, back to business. Hervold's 'confession' doesn't mean anything. Tell me, Algared, if you were a spy for any clan in Menglana and you were caught, who would you claim to be working for? Did you say, 'Dagen'? Well done. You pass the test."

"We can't base our actions based on anything that Hervold said to his captors. Logically there are three or four possibilities, but the one which is most likely based on motive and proximity is Trond."

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Post  Algared Sun Sep 20, 2009 7:04 am

Hovik wrote:Hovik rolls his eyes at Algared's rant. "Who pissed in your porridge this morning? If Kugald is insulted by my banter let him say so."

"Now, back to business. Hervold's 'confession' doesn't mean anything. Tell me, Algared, if you were a spy for any clan in Menglana and you were caught, who would you claim to be working for? Did you say, 'Dagen'? Well done. You pass the test."

Algared turns glaring at Hovik, "I have told you keep you words civil, Hovik. Did I say you insulted Kuglad, but you clearly wish to insult me. You treat anyone who disagrees with you like a fool, you did it on the boat with your obsessing over the road and now you wish to do the same. Yes Trond is a possible location, but there are other place which may be closer and easier to check."

"I'm not going to sit here and be insulted, we have a walk to Rogenstad at the least. Catch me when you decide what will do Kugald. Hovik you had best stay away from me for a while." With that Algared stands adjusts his belongings and begins a trek towards Rogenstad.
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Post  GM Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:00 am

Looking to the westward sky, you judge that you could probably make Rojanstad by last light, but the sky to the south west indicates that rain is going to arrive sooner than that...
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Post  Barak Daas Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:51 am

Barak watches the exchange between Hovik and Algared with interest: not what he was expecting.

"Come Kugald, we need to be making a move." He gestures after the disappearing Algared "And by the looks of it, that move initially is to the west, after him. It looks like we are destined for Rojanstad. I, for one, don't want to be trapsing around in the dark and the rain with no idea of where to go. If we're not to stay in Rojanstad tonight, then I think we need to make camp whilst there is still enough light to make a shelter from this weather."

Barak prepares to head of west after Algared; but he won't actually leave unless the group does.

[OoC: As before - If we head back down the road, Barak will continue to scan for tracks other than our own, though he knows his chancs are slim. He will also longingly look out for any game we pass, though since he can't carry his bow there is nothing he can really do about it even if he does see it. If we pass a clear running stream, Barak will fill up his water flask with fresh water.]
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Post  Kugald Daas Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:18 pm

OOC: Yes, both Thorin and Kugald still have their horses, though they have been riding all day and the horses will need to be fed and rubbed down for the night.

Kugald listens with interest to the discussion, without speaking. He seems intent on gathering all possible options before committing to a course of action. Finally, he furrows his brow and speaks.

"Well, based on Neirin and Algared tracking and inquiries, it seems clear that Reike did not come this way. So it is also clear we need to look in other directions. It will be nightfall soon and we will be needing shelter. I am not keen to return to Rojanstad. I think we should stay in Asarna. I am hoping our ruse worked and Clan Gerherbt think we have gone back to Ygesdram empty handed. Asarna has two households of Gerherbt. If we stay there, we must have a cover-story so that they don't have cause to send word to Rojanstad."

"We should rise very early tomorrow morning. I think that the river should be our next target. With an early rise, we can leave Asarna as soon as the false dawn lights the sky. With luck, we can be past Rojanstad before anyone stirs from their clan houses."

"Once past Rojanstad, we make for the river at best speed. First, we check back in Upsala. We ask if any have seen, as Barak has wisely suggested, 'our friend, Reike who we are trying to meet up with'. We also ask if anyone has hired a boat or any boats have gone missing since yesterday. If that fails, I suggest we head up river to Milhelm. It is right across the river from Trond. If, as Hovik has suggested, he may be in their employ, then he would have to have stolen or hired a boat to get across the river. We can inquire about both."

He looks at both Hovik and Algared. "Hovik's tongue is sharp and bitting, and I appreciate your speedy defense, cousin. But I am a big boy," he smiles at his own wit, "I can handle this little rascal." He gives Hovik a solid...but playful...punch in the shoulder. "But he brings up a good point. Although the Ibanvaalese are the main threat, politics in Menglana are deadly enough on their own. There is nothing to say that the Lord of Trond might not be in league with the Ibanvaalese as well. Once across the river, Reike would be out of the Daas' authority. That would be far faster and safer than heading into the mountains. From there, they could send messengers by river to Froyby. The Daas himself mentioned the river. I think it is worth investigating next."

"Let us get a good night's sleep and head out early in the morning. There is little point debating what we don't know. Let us concentrate on what we do know. Reike didn't come to Asarna or Deje. So, we need to look elsewhere. The river seems the next logical place."

He looks to Barak, "I have an extra task for you. When we reach Asarna, I want to to run on ahead to Rojanstad. You are new to the group and the Gerherbts don't know you, but you have met Madrin and are a Daas. I want you to go to the thran under the guise of a messenger. You can seek shelter at the Daas clanhouse. Tell Madrin of our plan in secret. Then, the two of you are to rise early and meet us on the Upsala road. I want Madrin with us. He knows where all the Clan Gerherbt holdings are and he will have the latest news from Rojanstad."

"Come, I wish to get to Asarna in time for dinner." He looks to Neirin and Algared, "Was there a Daas clanhouse there?"

As the band starts walking towards Asarna, Kugald asks, "So who has a good idea for a cover story so we don't alarm the two households of Clan Gerherbt enough to send a messenger to Rojanstad? Should we leave a watchman or two on the other side of Asarna to intercept one in case they do send a messenger?"

TTYL

- Kerry
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Post  Jurri Grebel Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:54 pm

Kugald Daas wrote:As the band starts walking towards Asarna, Kugald asks, "So who has a good idea for a cover story so we don't alarm the two households of Clan Gerherbt enough to send a messenger to Rojanstad? Should we leave a watchman or two on the other side of Asarna to intercept one in case they do send a messenger?"

Jurri answers right away.

"Would it not help us if they do send a messenger? Instead of intercepting the messenger, I say follow him to our foe. Our newest members are not yet associated with us, so that is a strength, but the rest of us should not pretend to be anything other than what we are to the Gerherbts. Let us give them a reason to send a messenger."

"If not, then let us make camp where we will not be seen at all."
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Post  Barak Daas Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:58 pm

Barak replies to Kugald "Cousin, I will gladly run ahead to Rojanstad, but first I have a running job for you." he smiles to indictate he jests "You are much closer to Algared than I, I suggest you run ahead and tell him we're going to Asarna, else he'll beat me to Rojanstad with the pace he is setting."

[OoC: Thinking ahead. There is no way that Barak is running anywhere with the ninety-ish pounds he is carrying. When the party have selected where they are staying for the night (hopefull a clan Dass longhouse) Barak will leave his knapsack (first putting his firestarting kit in to his belt pounch), spear and shield there. He will also take of the sheepskin coat he is wearing - it is far too warm to run wearing that. Before leaving he'll agree with someone in the warband to bring his gear to the Upsala road. He'll ask the clan Daas host to send his coat back to Jobar's in Ygesdram.]


Last edited by Barak Daas on Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:07 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Corrected Jobar's name)
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Post  Borygg Raal Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:05 pm

Jurri has a point. Maybe while most of the group goes into Asarna, someone could remain outside of town, watch the road, and follow any messenger they see. Such activity requires two men; when the quarry reaches his destination, one will need to keep watch while the other fetches the group. I have some experience with this kind of thing so I volunteer ... if this is the course of action you choose, Kugald.
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Post  Guest Sun Sep 20, 2009 7:13 pm

Hovik winces in feigned pain from Kugalds blow. And he adds just one more idea. "Why don't we hedge our bets, and send Neirin and one or two others up the Nupon road tomorrow? It's a longshot, but won't take all of us to check Upsala and Milnheim."

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Post  Algared Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:25 pm

Kugald Daas wrote:
"Come, I wish to get to Asarna in time for dinner." He looks to Neirin and Algared, "Was there a Daas clanhouse there?"


Kugald only then realises the full meaning of Barak's words, as Neirin tells him that 'Yes there was such place where Algared spoke to a Dass and left word for you that we had arrived safely and were pressing on." But Algared has indeed started walking down the road, putting distance between himself and Hovik. While not intending to race ahead in his anger he sets a realatively hard pace. A distant peel of thunder (hearing 10) and a cool breeze upon his back with the scent of rain (smell 23), causes him to look back at the black clouds that are the colour of his mood. Slowing his pace by force of will (will 14). Algared continues his path, knowing that they could reach Rogenstad by nightfall, if that is where Kugald chooses their path will lead and likely wet judging from the clouds.
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Post  GM Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:20 am

The dark clouds have been gathering for some time now, the wind has picked up to and now a strong wind blows in from the south west, the temperature also begins to fall.

You leave Deje behind and are about half way between the thrans of Deje and Asarna when at first a few drops of rain begin to fall and by the time you have taken another twenty paces the rain is falling down in a constant heavy stream, blowing in from behind your left shoulder. Pulling your cloaks tighter around your shoulders you battle the weather.

Lightning flashes to show your way with increasing frequency as the thunder booms and rolls off the mountains.

The trackers in the group know that whatever sign the Valhakar may have left behind will be well and truely gone within moments given this rain. Barak also knows that the wildlife like you can sense the storm and have long since gone and sought cover.

The weather slows your advance to Asarna slightly, drenched you arrive in Asarna after dark. Light can be seen through closed window shutters and given the weather all appears normal here in Asarna.

Finding the Daas clanhouse you bang on the door...
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Post  Barak Daas Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:46 am

[OoC: Maybe I will reconsider the sheepskin coat. Keeping it on my prevent hyperthermia if Kugald really wants me to go on to Rojanstad tonight. But I will not take the spear and sheild - both because of the encumberance, and because I don't think a armed militia man would go unnoticed, especially if it is a hunter who is meant to be on private business].

Barak waits impatiently for the door to open; and to see what sort of reaction they'll get. "What is taking them so long" he says.

To Kugald he says "Are you sure you want me to go on to Rojanstad on a foul night like tonight? I will if you think best, but first I want a bite to eat and a horn of warmed mead. This rain will have destroyed all tracks, so we need to consider our next move carefully. We will be reliant on getting a lead now."

[OoC: Barak tries to guess what the weather will be like for the rest of this evening (Weatherlore: 42%)].
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Post  GM Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:03 am

It is likely to continue to rain for the remainder of the watch perhaps longer but the new day should bring better conditions.
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Post  Kugald Daas Mon Sep 21, 2009 3:48 am

Kugald looks up at the gathering rain clouds. "On second thought, it looks like it is going to be a miserable night. I don't think anyone should be out in it. Barak, you stay with us. If the weather breaks by morning, we will still skirt Rojanstad. You can go straight in, fetch Madrin, and then meet us on the other side of the thran on the Upsala road."

"Thorin, can you please ride ahead and let Algared know we are staying in Asarna tonight, so he doesn't go marching all the way to Rojanstad in a rainstorm. Thank you."

"Given this weather, I don't think anyone from Clan Gerherbt will be sending a messenger to Rojanstad. Even if they did, it would likely be to report to Menaar [OOC: Reike Gerherbt's younger brother]. I doubt anyone in Asarna would know Reike has even left and certainly not where he was going. Besides, I don't want anyone to catch their death of cold, sitting out on watch just in case it might happen."

"Hovik, while I appreciate the advantages of sending runners to multiple villages, I am mindful of the danger of one or two lightly armed men running into Reike, perhaps with several of his clansmen with him, from wherever his is hiding. We should stick together."

"We will pick up the hunt in the morning."

The rain starts to fall heavily. Kugald pulls up the collar of his jacket and trudges on, leading Gauk [OOC: his horse]. "Barak, if your load is so heavy, lets put some of it on Gauk's back. He is used to carrying me, a piddly little shield and spear won't trouble him a bit."

They arrive in Asarna in the rain and knock at the door. Assuming hospitality is granted (and it should be), Kugald ask if there is somewhere he can stable Gauk. He removes the saddle and tack, giving it a quick oil and hanging it up to dry. He rubs down his horse and makes sure he has some feed and water, before returning to the clan house to eat and bed down for the night.

TTYL

- Kerry

OOC: While I appreciate the advantage of dispersing the warband into multiple groups to check multiple sites, the disadvantages posed by a lack of long range communications makes the idea an undesirable one (to me at least). That is just ASKING for another DEBACLE like...oh, I don't know...last night when two went ahead, the plan changed and there was no way to tell them...
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